19.19: A Close Reading on Worldbuilding: An Overview and why A Memory Called Empire
Why is worldbuilding is essential in your writing? Today, we answer this question and dive into some working definitions of how we want to talk about it. After the break, we discuss why we chose this book Arkady Martine’s “A Memory Called Empire” and highlight what it does well. We dive into the elements that help make Martine’s worldbuilding so accessible and effective.
Thing of the Week:
“Fast Car” by Tracy Chapman (think about what it teaches you about POV!)
Homework:
Pick your favorite fictional worlds and for each write down three defining attributes that establish culture, legal systems, and physical spaces.
Here’s a link to buy your copy of “A Memory Called Empire” if you haven’t already.
Credits: Your hosts for this episode were Mary Robinette Kowal, DongWon Song, Erin Roberts, Dan Wells, and Howard Tayler. It was produced by Emma Reynolds, recorded by Marshall Carr, Jr., and mastered by Alex Jackson.
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Transcript
Key points: Worldbuilding. Not just the things you invent. Spaces, relationships, and interconnections. Not just speculative fiction, worldbuilding is a part of any fiction you are writing. Where do your characters live, what kind of people live there, what kind of industries, schools, family… Worldbuilding gives you texture, realism, and plausibility. What you don’t show as well as what you show! Worldbuilding establishes stakes for your characters. What’s important. Legal system, physical infrastructure, what people value. Rules and systems as much as physical material spaces. Think about your establishing shot, that first scene. Not always a wide shot, sometimes a single detail can tell you a lot about the world. How much do you need to establish and explain? Beware of the “in a world” prologue. Balance show and tell. Two kinds of worldbuilding, decorative and structural. Structural things drive the story. Decorative is just fun. And sometimes things are both! Audience surrogate, fish out of water…
[Season 19, Episode 19]
[Mary Robinette] This episode of Writing Excuses has been brought to you by our listeners, patrons, and friends. If you would like to learn how to support this podcast, visit www.patreon.com/writingexcuses.
[Mary Robinette] Hey, listeners. We want your input on season 20. Which, I have to be honest, does not sound like a real number. What elements of the craft do you want us to talk about? What episode or core concept do you use or reference or recommend the most? Or, what are you just having trouble with? After 20 seasons, we’ve talked about a lot of things. What element of writing do you wish we’d revisit for a deeper dive on the podcast? Email your ideas to podcast@writingexcuses.com
[Season 19, Episode 19]
[Mary Robinette] This is Writing Excuses.
[DongWon] A Close Reading on Worldbuilding: An Overview and why A Memory Called Empire.
[Mary Robinette] 15 minutes long.
[Dan] Because you’re in a hurry.
[Marshall] And we’re not that smart.
[Mary Robinette] I’m Mary Robinette.
[DongWon] I’m DongWon.
[Dan] I’m Dan.
[Howard] And I’m Howard.
[DongWon] So, to kick off this second series that we’re doing of close readings, we are going to be talking for the next few episodes about worldbuilding. Why it’s important, how it functions, and to dig into that, we wanted to do a close reading of Arkady Martin’s A Memory Called Empire. This is a really wonderful novel. It won the Hugo award. I am very biased, because as a literary agent, I represent Arkady and I worked on this book, so I know it pretty well. But to kick us off here, before we dig into A Memory Called Empire specifically, I wanted to talk a little bit about the concept of worldbuilding. What is it exactly, what are the basic mechanics? Just so we all have a shared vocabulary heading into doing the actual close reading.
[Mary Robinette] So when we talk about worldbuilding, it’s really easy to get hung up and think that it’s only about the things that you invent. But, for me, it’s also about not just the spaces, but the relationships between people, and how all of the things interconnect. That it’s… It is worldbuilding because you are thinking about those connections, and the connections are often the things that are significantly more interesting than any individual thing that you may invent.
[Dan] Well, it’s worth pointing out, I think, that we tend to think of worldbuilding as being a part of spec fic exclusively, but regardless of what you’re writing, worldbuilding is an important part of it. When I was writing the John Cleaver books, a big part of those books was figuring out how big is the town he lives in? What kind of people live there? What kind of industries do they work in? Where does he go to school, what is school like? What is his family like? Who are the other people that he’s known? That helps give the town a lot of texture and a lot of realism and a lot of plausibility. That is absolutely a part of worldbuilding.
[DongWon] Yeah. What you don’t show is as important as what you put on screen. Because any novel or any short story, whatever it is, there’s going to be way more details and facets of this world than you can fit into your book itself. So, you don’t have to invent every aspect, or if you do in an attempt to be realist, you don’t have to show every aspect. The way I think about worldbuilding, and this kind of ties into what Mary Robinette was saying, is it’s about establishing stakes for your character. Because what parts of the world you show are the things that are important to the people in your world. So, what the legal system is, what the physical infrastructure is, what rich people value, what poor people value, all those things are going to be part of your worldbuilding. So, as you’re establishing what’s important to your characters, think as much about rules and systems as you do about physical material spaces.
[Howard] You used the word establishing, which always takes me to establishing shot. As you’re doing your worldbuilding, as you’re writing languages, creating religions, doing geography, whatever else, at some point, the rubber will meet the road and you have to write that first scene. That first scene is your establishing shot, where you start giving people the details they need to understand what’s happening here. If you look at a helicopter shot of New York City, at the beginning of something, you know that this is taking place in New York City, or a city. If you have a helicopter shot zooming over rolling fields of grain, you know that it is a completely different type of story. Just understanding that principle can help you set up that first scene so that your worldbuilding works.
[Mary Robinette] Also, along those lines, that establishing shot does not need to be a wide shot. That often, zooming in on a single telling detail is going to tell you a lot about the world more so than the rolling fields of grain. So one of the mistakes that I will sometimes see people make with worldbuilding when they are doing it in spec fic is the feeling that they need to do that wide shot. While there are times that you need to do it, and it’s something that we’ll see with Arkady’s work, there are also places where just starting very, very tight in is going to serve you better. That decision is based less on worldbuilding and what you want to convey about it and more about the tone of the book. Like, are you doing something that’s very intimate, are you doing something that’s really slow? When we start looking at Arkady’s, it’s a huge empire that we’re being introduced to, so it is both a wide shot and, I think, a more detailed shot. Which is a lot of fun.
[DongWon] Part of why this is so fun to talk about in speculative fiction is that when you’re doing contemporary realism, you get… You’ve got a lot of shorthand, right? As Howard was mentioning, if you have a wide shot, a helicopter shot of New York City, you’ve established a lot of world that you don’t need to explain to your audience. When you are inventing a new culture, so, as we get into Memory Called Empire, when you’re like approaching this massive planet-city, there’s so much you need to establish and explain. So, sometimes, in that case, when you do the big wide shot, as Mary Robinette was talking about, it can be very overwhelming and not give you very much information. So zeroing in on a very specific thing often is a way to get to more information faster. Because if you try to tell them everything at once, their brain’s going to shut down. That’s when we start talking about quote unquote info dumps.
[Dan] Yeah. This is making me think of the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring, where there is a ton of world, the incredibly expansive world… He’s famous for his worldbuilding, and yet, the first several chapters, and our introduction, our establishing shot, is all just the Shire. It’s a peaceful little village with just a bunch of idyllic sheep and people eating happy meals together. Not actual happy meals…
[Laughter]
[Dan] But they’re eating meals and they’re happy about it. That doesn’t tell us what the world is like, but it is vital worldbuilding because it tells us what the characters are leaving behind.
[DongWon] Yep.
[Dan] And it establishes, like you said, the stakes. This is what we’re protecting when…
[DongWon] Exactly.
[Dan] We leave here and go out into the rest of the very complex world.
[Howard] A common mistake that I’ve made myself in regard to delivering your worldbuilding to the reader is delivering it the way the late 90s and 2000’s movie trailers did, “In a world.” In a world, guy… He’s the guy who pitches the worldbuilding in 15 seconds so that you know the pitch for the novel. Okay? He is not the guy who opened your story. Having a story that opens with some text telling you where we are, and then the first scene contextually gives me 80% of that information… You know what, we didn’t need that text.
[DongWon] Yeah.
[Howard] We didn’t need that. We didn’t… I say we didn’t. Maybe we didn’t need the prologue of your novel. But consider if your prologue is “in a world,” go ahead and just start with chapter 1.
[DongWon] Well, this is where I love the balance of show and don’t… Show and tell. Right? Because we hear the advice all the time, show, don’t tell. But when you’re communicating worldbuilding, there’s so much information to get across that sometimes you do just want to come out and say the thing. You do just want to explain it. I think a lot of our favorite examples are ones that don’t do that, because it’s more memorable to find an effective way of showing it without explaining. But also, sometimes, slowing down and just explaining, “Hey, this is how this world works. This is how this legal system works.” You will have to do that, especially in speculative fiction, because there’s too much to explain to let your audience infer it. When I find myself getting super confused by worldbuilding when I’m looking at submissions, it is almost always because they have tried to adhere to closely to just showing me. Then I’m like, “Wait, wai, wai, wait. I don’t understand because this could mean 8 different things.”
[Mary Robinette] Yep.
[DongWon] So, finding that balance point is the trick, especially early in your book.
[Mary Robinette] I find that I break my worldbuilding kind of into 2 categories, decorative and structural. So the structural things are the things that are driving the story. Like when we get into A Memory Called Empire, one of the things that’s in there is something called a cloud hook. Arkady just like drops us into it, we just… Like does not really explain it, except in pieces, like, gives it to us as a character interacts with it. The reason that it’s worth taking the time to have the character interact with it and spend that time with it, is that later, the cloud hook becomes this really important thing. But there’s other pieces that happen in the story, like there are these little hummingbird-like things. We don’t need to know where those come from or anything like that. Those are purely decorative. That, for me, that I will see people put in a decorative thing that there super excited about, and then people don’t understand it, and they try to explain it, and it’s not important.
[Laughter]
[Dan] One of the things that I always try to do in my books is put in enough of these decorative elements that the reader is never sure until it matters which elements are loadbearing and which elements are decorative. This is one of the things I love about the movie My Cousin Vinny. Because it has such wonderful worldbuilding, is you take these outsiders into this small southern town and they encounter the mud, and they encounter grits, which they’ve never seen before, and all of these little aspects of small-town life that just blow their minds. Then, about half of them become vital to winning the case at the end. Grits doesn’t sound like it would be a loadbearing element, and it absolutely is. It’s just…
[Howard] You make them thick enough…
[Laughter]
[Mary Robinette] Yeah. I was gonna say…
[Dan] So, yeah. It’s the… That ability to… I mean, it’s not quite red herring, but it’s just as you are explaining the world and where your story takes place, the reader has that thrill of not knowing which elements are vital to the plot and which elements are fun and which are both.
[DongWon] This goes back to talking about how contemporary fiction can be a stretch in the imagination, because for 3 out of the 4 people here on this recording today, grew up in grits-eating country…
[Chuckles]
[DongWon] So the idea that someone wouldn’t know what they are…
[Mary Robinette] Yep.
[DongWon] Completely baffling to me when I watched this as a child. But, on that note, let’s take a break for a few minutes, and when we come back, we’ll start digging into A Memory Called Empire.
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[Erin] I think a lot of people have heard the song Fast Car by Tracy Chapman. But if you haven’t heard that song and aren’t singing it to yourself right now, then really, go ahead and listen to it. Because it’s amazing. I will admit a little bit of theft here. My father had taught high school English for many years, and always used Fast Car is a way to teach his students point of view. I think it’s because it’s a great story in the song that’s all about this woman trying to get a man with a fast car to run away with her, but you get these little glimpses from her life as it is, as it will be, as it was. It’s a great way to look at how past, future, and present can all come together through one particular person’s POV. So, listen to Fast Car, and if you want to be like my dad’s students, think about what it would be like if that song was sung from the point of view of the man with the fast car and not the woman looking for him.
[DongWon] Okay. So, I would love to start talking about the text itself and why we chose this particular book. In some ways, it’s a little obvious, because it’s right in the name, it is about Empire, and when we think about big science fiction worldbuilding, we tend to think about space empires. We tend to think in fantasy about books like Lord of the Rings that have really rich, complex settings. I find the way that Arkady, the author Arkady Martine, approaches worldbuilding in this particular book to be really fascinating and nuanced and complex, but what about you guys? I mean, what did you feel about when this book was proposed, why we decided to settle on this one for the close reading?
[Dan] I was so excited that we chose this book. I read it… I have right here with me my original ARC that I read before it came out. It blew my mind. This is one of the best science fiction books I think I’ve ever read. Most of that stems from the incredible work that she’s done with the culture. So much of science fiction is worldbuilding a new technology or worldbuilding a new alien or a new environment. Most of the work here is a culture. The story is, in large part, about getting to know what this culture is like and how their names work, and how poetry is vital to the things that they do. It’s just such a rich book because of that.
[DongWon] Yeah. Talk about surprising loadbearing elements, it’s rare that you get a science fiction novel that has loadbearing poetry recitals…
[Chuckles]
[DongWon] That radically alter the direction of the plot.
[Howard] Also, unusual to get something with such an epic scope that has a single POV. We… I mean, yes, there are other POVs for interludes and for chapter bumps, but the story is being told through the perspective of one character. I think that’s part of why the worldbuilding is so accessible and so effective. We have a stranger comes to town, really, is the… Well, not… Somebody goes on a trip is the story structure here.
[DongWon] Yeah.
[Howard] We are seeing a new place through the eyes of someone to whom this place is new, but she has loved it from afar and has studied it and is now immersed in it. Every paragraph… Every paragraph gives us tidbits about this struc… About this place.
[Mary Robinette] So, for me, the thing that is interesting and exciting is that it is not a single world. That every paragraph illuminates 2 worlds at the same time. Because our main character, Mahit, comes from Lsel, which is a space station. It is an un-planeted world. Has come to this planet that is part of this Empire, this massive Empire. So all of everything that she sees is seen through the lens of someone who grew up not on a planet, and also has had this deep, deep love for this culture, but has never been a direct participant of it. Interacting with people who are, who have grown up in it. So there’s all of this really wonderful, like, very muscular writing that is happening, where we’re using all of the tools that are possibly at our disposal. She’s using interactions with the environment, she’s using point of view, she’s using conversation, she’s using every tool. Epistolary things. Every tool to convey all of this rich information. But had to create, like, there’s 2 worlds that we are getting information of, and then there’s bits of other places and other cultures. Even within the world that we’re in, there’s multiple cultures, for both. So that’s why I was excited by it.
[Howard] For me, one of the scenes that best calls that out is the café bomb. Because someone sets off a bomb…
[DongWon] We’re going to dig into this very deeply in a couple of episodes, actually.
[Howard] Yeah. Yeah. But, the idea that on a planet, someone can…
[DongWon] Yep.
[Howard] Protest by blowing things up. But on a space station, that would kill everybody. It would never occur to anyone to protest by setting off an explosion, because that would destroy the world.
[DongWon] Well, she has a whole speech, actually, where someone did do that in the consequences were that were so extreme. Right? They immediately physically spaced everyone involved and cut them off from their [imago line], so they essentially just erased them from society in a radical way. The difference in scale of response versus what you can do on a space station versus what can happen on a planet is one of those fascinating little things.
[Howard] Actually, yeah. So it calls up her perspective of I come from this place…
[DongWon] Yeah.
[Howard] I’m now in this new place. If this thing happened in the old place, it’d be completely different.
[Mary Robinette] Yeah.
[DongWon] It’s such a novel of contrasts, and the way Arkady uses that parallax of perspective to give you perspective on the whole universe. Right? Because 99.9% of the book takes place in one location, in one city. Really, between 2 offices, primarily.
[Mary Robinette] Yeah.
[DongWon] It mostly just… The range of spaces in the book is very limited. But when you think about the book, your memory of it is so expensive, of a sense…
[Mary Robinette] Your memory of Empire.
[Laughter]
[DongWon] Your memory of Empire is a sense of multiple worlds, of massive systems, of huge space wars. But the action in the book is very constrained and very limited.
[Dan] Yeah. I was going to say that on one hand, this idea of the outsider coming in is just My Cousin Vinny again.
[Laughter]
[Dan] Right? It’s… That’s such a helpful trick and a wonderful little tool to explain one culture is explain it through the eyes of an outsider. But it is rare to see the opposite done. Like, if My Cousin Vinny told us as much about Brooklyn as it does about little southern town, then that would be closer to what we’re talking about here. The differences between them is kind of the whole story.
[DongWon] Yeah.
[Dan] I love, in particular, how torn she is about this. Mahit… You get this sense that she doesn’t want to love Teixcalaani culture as much as she does. That they are imperialists, that they are colonialists, that they are kind of absorbing and warping all of the other cultures.
[DongWon] Yeah.
[Dan] And that everyone who encounters them loses a little bit of themselves, but at the same time, she just really loves it. It’s this kind of otaku visiting Japan since almost…
[Chuckles]
[Dan] That she’s like, “I’m so excited. I’m finally here. I’ve watched all of these movies about this.”
[DongWon] Yeah. With the difference that Japan is not actively colonizing the United States. Right?
[Dan] Yes. Yes. Right.
[Howard] If it was a Chinese otaku visiting Japan…
[Dan] Yeah.
[Howard] In 1940.
[DongWon] Well, this is why this book is so significant to me personally. The term we usually use for what you’re talking about is audience surrogate. Right? You have somebody who is… Stands in for the audience, arriving at the place, and we see it through their eyes, so there’s an excuse to explain all of the things about how this works. Right? So this is Kitty Pride arriving at Xavier’s mansion, and we get to see oh, these are what all the X-Men are. Right? But in this case, Arkady pulled an incredible trick, in my view, where the subjectivity of the audience surrogate becomes very, very important. Because they are not just a visitor, they are someone who is resisting assimilation, resisting Empire, by the place that they are visiting. What does it mean to love the Empire that is destroying your culture? I’m Korean-American. My family is from Korea. Which was… This is a complicated statement I’m going to make, but has been occupied territory by the United States since the Korean War. Right? The influence and dominance of American culture on Korean society cannot be overstated. So the idea of coming from a colonized people, colonized by many people… Another example is the way Japan has colonized Korea. I love Japanese media. I watch animes. Some Japanese filmmakers are some of my favorite filmmakers of all time. Right? Whether that’s Kurosawa or a variety of other people. Those things are very near and dear to my heart. So what it is to feel like you love the cultures that have actively or passively tried to destroy the culture of the people that you come from is a very complicated emotion. To see that represented on the page by this person who is not only trying to figure out how to survive in the most literal way, but also to preserve her identity and her people’s safety. It was such an inversion of the trick of the audience surrogate, that I was completely blown away. Again, that contrast between the 2 perspectives gives you all of this depth and all of this complexity of the world she encounters.
[Mary Robinette] Well, the other thing that she also did, in addition to that, the other layer of it, is that… Often the audience surrogate, the fish out of water, has no experience and everything is new. Mahit is a subject matter expert.
[DongWon] Yes.
[Mary Robinette] Fluent in the language, studied it, top marks. Knows the history. Still… Still, there are these enormous lacuna in her understanding. I think that the… That those gaps, those places where herself, her home, rubs up against… And her book understanding of a thing rubs up against the actual experience of it, those are the things that make the world building in this so meaty that I’m just so excited to be digging into over the next several episodes.
[DongWon] Yeah. I mean, I think many of us here have had the experience of living overseas are visiting overseas for a period of time. It’s amazing how much you can do all this research, you can speak the language, and still the texture of actually being there is wildly different. Right? Again, this is a thing for me growing up as a child of immigrants, going back to Korea, is this culture I know so well in so many ways, but Korea is different from being Korean-American. Right? So, while it’s not exactly Mahit’s situation here, it was such a familiar experience of thinking you know how things are going to go, and then somebody says the word and you’re like, “Oh, my God. What does that mean in this moment? I thought this meant this other thing, but now they’re saying this…”
[Mary Robinette] Yeah.
[DongWon] How do I navigate this social interaction that made sense to me through the filtered version I experienced or from watching movies? But then somebody’s saying to me right now, what do I do?
[Mary Robinette] Yeah.
[DongWon] That is such a fascinating experience.
[Dan] Yeah. I… With that is this idea of loving a culture so much and living in that culture and still realizing that you’re an outsider.
[Mary Robinette] Yes.
[DongWon] Exactly.
[Dan] I had this experience living in Mexico. I lived in Mexico long enough to start to consider myself Mexican. I’m not. I would never actually say that I. But there is that bit of… I don’t really fit in here. But I do, but I don’t. This book explores that so well.
[Howard] I think the power of this novel lies in the fact that as readers, we come away from it understanding what it means to be Lsel…
[DongWon] Yeah.
[Howard] To be Teixcalaani. And we understand that there’s a depth way beyond that that we could never have, because we weren’t born there. We weren’t raised there. That level of immersion is one of the things that I love about good worldbuilding and well presented worldbuilding. A Memory Called Empire pulls it off perfectly.
[DongWon] Well, I think that’s a great note to leave it on. I’m so excited to dig in in-depth over the next few episodes about specific things about this book that communicate all the concepts we talked about here. So, thank you guys for joining us on this little journey here.
[DongWon] I have some homework for you in the meantime. That is, I would like each of you to pick one of your favorite fictional worlds, whether that’s Middle Earth or the galaxy in Star Wars or what Memory Called Empire… Whatever world has spoken to you in your past. Then, I want you to write down 3 different attributes of that world. So, think about ones that establish culture, think about ones that establish legal systems and power, and think about ones that establish physical spaces. All of these things are going to communicate different things about what’s important to your characters. So if you make a list of those, I think that’s a great starting point to understand how you can approach writing a world that feels robust and consistent.
[Howard] This has been Writing Excuses. You’re out of excuses, now go write.
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[Mary Robinette] Let’s talk about Rude Tales of Magic. In this improvised narrative role-playing podcast, join artists, writers, and comedians from Adult Swim, Cartoon Network, Comedy Central, Marvel Comics, and more as they fight and fumble their way across the madcap and exceedingly rude fantasy wasteland of Cordelia. Branson Reese and his jesters retinue, Christopher Hastings, Carlin Menardo, Tim Platt, Joe Laporte, and Ali Fisher, star is a group of unlikely survivors. Specifically, a talking crow, a Lich in a wig, a bubbly faun, a Sasquatch punk, and a [teefling?] hunk. This group must solve the mystery of Polaris University vanishment and return balance and higher education to their world. It’s going to be very hard and very, very rude. Subscribe to Rude Tales of Magic on Spotify, Apple podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes drop every Wednesday.
